Friday, September 24, 2010
How is Othello desfined as an "other?"
In class today we began a discussion about how Othello is defined as an "other" or outsider. There is the obvious example that he is a moor. However, the separation goes deeper than this. Whereas Othello is a military man, many of the other people he deals with are politicians. These people are much smoother than Othello, and it shows in their relative language. Can anybody think of other ways he is separated?
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
hello ed!
ReplyDeletegood thought. His field of work is different than many of the other characters in the book but I think another reason he is separated from most everyone and made an outsider is because of his power. Although to those with political power he is looked down upon, they recognize that militarily he is very powerful. They recognize that he has the power to protect them, and that in his field, he is the most valuable. Some are even jealous of it (obvs Iago). People separate themselves from Othello because of his level of power and because they are uncomfortable with or intimidated by it.
I certainly agree with everything said above. Othello is certainly an other, another way in which he is an other is his relationship with desdemona. this itself elevates him above the other members of society. furthermore he is considered an other. He is also an other because of the many stories he has to offer that other soldiers do not. Furthermore when mentioned by other characters in the play he is referred to as "he," "him," and other racial slurs. In addition he is considered different and another because of his age.
ReplyDeleteI agree with everything that has been said so far, too. Russell, I really like your point about how Desdemona and Othello's stories about his past sets him apart and makes him an "other." Since Desdemona had many other suitors, and chose to stay with Othello because she was captivated by his stories, we can definitely say that this sets him apart. I believe that if Othello did not have such an interesting past - with all the obstacles he faced and overcame - Desdemona would not have chosen to marry him. Additionally, I think that Othello is made an "other" by the literary devices Shakespeare uses; for example, he is frequently referred to as satan and as a wide variety of animals, all of which have negative connotations. Othello also stands apart from the other characters in the play because of his military experience. Unlike the other military generals, he is the only one that the Duke completely trusts - and it is important to note that he is still the most trusted even though he is a Moor.
ReplyDeleteBreaking the trend, I mostly disagree. I don't think that the distinction between politicians and military figures is all too significant. None of the politicians look down on Othello at all, and they all have great respect for him. Far from not talking as “smoothly” as other characters, Othello is probably the most poetic and eloquent (though they all are). Othello himself, at the orders of Venice, becomes governor of Cyprus with complete political power, and Montano (his predecessor) has no problem with it. And I doubt that he was called "he" or "him" with derogatory implications. He's a male, and those are the corresponding pronouns. Also, the Duke never suggests that he completely trusts Othello or that he distrusts other generals. I’m fairly certain that he’s the only general mentioned in the play. And Iago is also a combat veteran, though I suppose he and Othello are still unique in this way.
ReplyDeleteAnyways, I do agree that Othello is an other because he is a Moor. His blackness is frequently commented on. Significantly, Shakespeare immediately emphasizes by the subtitle: “The Moor of Venice”. Yet in a society where, as Iago sees it, education, societal status, and rank mean a lot, Othello is able to distinguish himself through merit.
I also agree that Othello is an other because of his unique relationship with Desdemona. The other men of the play think little of women and are perverse, lustful, and cynical. Their relationships lack true love. Othello and Desdemona, on the other hand, are quixotically romantic (Othello’s crime of passion actually only proves this).
I would disagree with all of you. True, Othello can speak eloquently. True, he has Desdemona. Othello has the obvious military and political capability.
ReplyDeleteHe is set apart because of he can be easily manipulated and molded into something else. Cassio and Rodriego and others (apart from Othello and Iago) tries to control what they can about themselves. Iago manipulates all, but Othello doesn't even second guess Iago's words and trusts Iago to the letter.
I agree with alot of what was said above. Othello is an other obviously because of his blackness and power. I think the fact that he has desdemona, who is the most sought after woman in the land, by his side also creates an aura around him that separates him. But ding made a great point in saying he is an other in his ability to get manipulated. nobody else in the story trusts people as othello does, and this is obviously his downfall. his inherent belief that everybody is good is what separates him from the rest of the characters. hes also a boss, just thought id throw that out there
ReplyDeleteto add on to what justin and stephen are saying, i think that othello's low self-confidence separates him from the other people in the play and makes othello himself an "other." i think though, that it is his clear status as an outsider based on the obvious things (his race, etc) that leads him to stand alone in his blind acceptance of everything that iago has to say.
ReplyDeleteDing, I like your point about manipulation. Unlike Roderigo, who questions Iago's motives and commitment to his promise to help, and Emilia who gives her own husband up in the end, Othello puts complete faith into Iago. His relationship with Desdemona also sets him apart from everyone else in the play; Emilia and Iago seem to have a strained relationship, and Cassio disrespects Bianca. Othello and Desdemona are the only two people who seem to have a passionate relationship. Something else that sets Othello apart from others in the play is his honesty. At the end, after he has killed Desdemona, he admits to the crime. Contrastingly, Iago lies and manipulates throughout the entire play. He shows no signs of remorse and does not seem like he is willing to admit his wrongdoings until his wife turns him over at the end.
ReplyDeleteAlthough race might seem to be a superficial reason for Othello's separation from society, it is an important one. Much to what Emily has said about self-confidence, a great cause of Othello's alienation lies within his own personage. Othello harbors a great misconception. He subscribes to a great false-dichotomy; namely, that he is either 100% Venetian or 100% Moor. He fails to recognize the intermediate positions between absolute assimilation to Venetian society and total social outcast. This, in turn, causes him to affect a great internal dilemma of struggling to assert his power and pushing to fit in. In devoting himself to these ultimate tasks, Othello fails to recognize the more important things going on in his quotidian life.
ReplyDeleteIt is, thus, Othello who creates the deepest and widest rift between his own character and society. Sure, there is the jealousy of his power, his wife, and his hero-like status; but, the true divide is created and sustained by the false-dichotomy to which Othello seems to so closely adhere.
I agree with most of what has been said so far, and I believe that Othello being an outsider comes from his insecurities about his position of being a black man in power. While some people do respect Othello, others, mainly Iago, manipulate him. Othello is too insecure to use his power effectively, and he is too trusting of other characters. I think that Othello tries to overcome his blackness by attempting to be honest and fair, but when he gets taken advantage of he lashes out violently. So Othello is an outsider because he acts extremely. In the beginning he tries to be the perfect general and cares deeply about how others look at him, but at the end Othello is turned into a barbarian and no longer cares about his reputation. Othello never acts like an average human being, and so he is always an outsider.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Clark, Emily and Austin. I think Othello is an outsider for the obvious reasons of his race (throughout the play, there are clear references to this, like him being called "thick lips" and a "Barbary horse") and his job in the military instead of politics. Moreover, he is culturally estranged in Venice. But I think one of the true reasons for him being "an other" is that he has a very naive, idealistic personality in my opinion. First off, his marriage to Desdemona is a poor decision and illustrates his naiveté - he believes society in the 1600s will stomach a biracial marriage. This alone shows Othello's lack of social savvy and that he fancies himself in an idealistic, perfect world or some sort of Utopia. Moreover, he never questions Iago's motives and he seems to be ignorant of - or chooses willfully to ignore - the dark side of human nature. Throughout the play, there is a constant struggle for power and a lot of backstabbing and scheming to get ahead. Othello is largely oblivious to this and seems to be overly naive. He does not comprehend the human condition and what they are capable of. This is part of his tragic flaw as a hero, in my opinion, and all his idealistic notions are shattered with the entire debacle with Desdemona that leads to his death. Therefore, in Othello's world of cynical power-mongers, Othello is an idealistic poor soul with fanciful ideas; this sets him apart.
ReplyDeletehey guys
ReplyDeletei sort of disagree with this whole self esteem argument. i dont think his trusting iago demonstrated weakness in othello. iago made it pretty believable in my opinion that desdemona was cheating on him.
i agree that his power separates him - he has what iago wants and therefore plots to destroy him. he is also separated by his marriage, since desdemona is very much desired.
also... i think he is separated by his race, but i think it goes slightly further than the fact that he is black and living amongst whites. i think he is dually considered an "other" - partially bc he is surrounded by whites, but also because he is not your average black man (stereotype)
he is not barbaric in any way - in fact, he's in control.
I mostly agree with the various points people have already made; Othello was immediately designated an other because of his racial and cultural separation from the rest of high Venetian society. His position of power considering his ethnic status was impressive and set him apart from everyone else. Also despite these conditions that normally would have kept him from being so well respected and trusted, he manages to marry the most beautiful woman around, white and the daughter of a rich man opposed to the union. I like Josh's point about the extreme reactions, although I think Iago's reaction to Cassio's promotion, and Roderigo's to Desdemona's marriage were at least equally irrational and violent, so it is hard to say that sets Othello apart.
ReplyDeleteI liked Stephen's point that Othello is set apart from the other characters because of his trust in others that causes him to be easily manipulated. Othello believes whatever "Honest Iago" has to say when even characters like Roderigo question Iago's motives.
ReplyDeleteI also agree with the others that Othello's romantic relationship with Desdemona makes him different. Other characters, such as Iago and Cassio, don't treat the women in their lives well whereas Othello and Desdemona have a loving relationship which is shown when she marries him despite the trouble she knows it will cause.
However, I disagree that Othello's military power sets him apart from others. i don't think there is a huge difference between being a general and a politician. They are both positions of power.
I agree with what most of you are saying. To add on:
ReplyDeleteOthello is not only an "other" by societal standards, he makes himself so. He is obviously black, an therefore faces the societal prejudice, but that is not completely what separates him from the crowd. As mentioned above, his relationship with Desdemona proves to be significantly different from the norms of the day- most people in sixteenth century Europe, especially in Italy, which was dominated by the omnipotent authority of the Papal States and Renaissance Popes, treated women like subhuman specimens, and really did not care to win their love. Women were seen merely as beings meant to satisfy the will of men. However, Othello's view of Desdemona could not be further from this reality. He sees her in a loving and almost reverent manner.
But what sets him apart the most, in my opinion, is his character (I know, cliche). As Vivian mentioned, her is easily manipulated, but that is because he is wholeheartedly devoted to the welfare of his state, and being an honorable man. (Random tangent- is it just me, or are "honorable men" the ones who fall in Shakespeare's tragedies?) He is angry with Desdemona because he feels betrayed, and dishonorable to stay with a woman who is cheating on him. He also fires Cassio because he believes a moody man like him would not do well for the state. Finally, Othello trusts Iago, as opposed to Desdemona, because Iago is well-versed in matters of state and military tactic. So Othello essentially separates himself from emotion and bias to make decisions. THIS is whaty truly makes him an "other"- all the other men in the play seem to act only based on self-interest, even noble Cassio. Othello cares for others more than himself, thereby setting him apart. (Another tangent- Wow, Othello is a lot like Brutus).
i agree with a lot of the things previously said. some of othello's actions make him an outsider, like his marriage with desdemona. the fact that he went behind his friend's back to do so resulted in his alienation. plus, desdemona is considered a catch, so a lot of people resent him for having such a beautiful wife. iago even uses that against him by convincing othello that she isn't faithful
ReplyDeletei think that his position of power also influences how people act around him. it causes jealousy, clearly seen by iago's actions and detest for othello, and no matter how good friends he is with someone of a lower rank, there is always that looming reminder that othello is still superior.
I think that every single one of Othello's problems with separation or of being an outsider, unfortunately, stem from race. Everything sort of fits into place because his skin color is different. His position of power and authority over Iago wouldn't be a problem if he were a white man, or so I believe. His marriage to Desdemona would surely be approved by her father had he been a white man. His achievements are as noble and impressive as anyone else's however he is believed to be unqualified for his job, status, etc, because of the color of his skin. I think that his insecurities and his opponents in this play are generally out to get him because of the fact that he is a moor.
ReplyDeleteI thought Demetra made a really astute comment about how Othello might not have considered all the consequences of his marriage to desdemona. Like Romeo and Juliet, Othello is concerned only with his love, and does not stop to think about the social problems his marriage would create. In both of these Shakespeare plays, love conquers all for the two people involved, but both pairs of lovers meet prejudice and hatred for their decisions.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I do not agree that Othello is extremely naive. Iago is a highly skilled actor and manipulator, and has fooled not only Othello but also everyone around him for years. Everyone has a high opinion of Iago, and Othello views him as one of his best and most trusted servants. It's very cynical of people to say that Othello should not trust one of his closest companions.
Othello's status as a general is one of the most important characteristics that sets him apart. He has a position of power and prestige, and all of the men in the play either admire or envy him for his position.